AN OUR KIDS REPORT:Sidney Ledson Institute vs. Vancouver Independent School for Science and Technology

one-to-one comparison:

View Sidney Ledson Institute's full report
VS.
View Vancouver Independent School for Science and Technology's full report

  • SCHOOL LOCATION

    Distance From

    Map

    Address

    Address

    220 Duncan Mill Road, Suite 107, Toronto, Ontario, M3B 3J5, Canada

    #200 - 1490 W Broadway, Vancouver, British Columbia, V6H 4E8, Canada

  • SCHOOL OVERVIEW

    Basics

    Basics

    Founded

    1982

    2022

    Enrolment

    118

    40

    Grades

    Preschool to 6

    8 to 12

    Gender

    Coed

    Coed

    Living arrangements

    eSchool, Day

    Day

    Language of instruction

    English

    English

    Faith Based

    School focus

    Academic

    Science and technology

    Developmental Priorities

    Intellectual
    The goal is to cultivate "academically strong, creative and critical thinkers, capable of exercising rationality, apprehending truth, and making aesthetic distinctions."
    Balanced
    Equal emphasis is placed on a balance of priorities: intellectual, emotional, social and physical cultivation.
    Balanced
    Equal emphasis is placed on a balance of priorities: intellectual, emotional, social and physical cultivation.
    Intellectual
    The goal is to cultivate "academically strong, creative and critical thinkers, capable of exercising rationality, apprehending truth, and making aesthetic distinctions."

    Academics

    Academics

    Curriculum

    Traditional

    Progressive

    Curriculum pace

    Accelerated
    The main curriculum accelerates beyond the pace of the provincial one; ALL students do the work of OLDER public-school peers in tangible and measurable ways. This accelerated pace is maintained by the teachers and school, (through textbook selection, topic selection, grading, assignment standards and expectations, etc).
    Accelerated
    The main curriculum accelerates beyond the pace of the provincial one; ALL students do the work of OLDER public-school peers in tangible and measurable ways. This accelerated pace is maintained by the teachers and school, (through textbook selection, topic selection, grading, assignment standards and expectations, etc).

    Academic culture

    Supportive
    A school with a “supportive” academic culture focuses more on process than short-term outcomes: academic performance is a welcomed side-benefit, but not the driving focus. This does not mean the school lacks standards, or has low expectations for its students: a school can have a supportive academic culture and still light the fire of ambition in its students. It does mean, however, the school provides a less intensive culture than schools with a “rigorous” academic classification, and is focused more simply on instilling a love of learning and life-long curiosity.
    Rigorous
    A school with a “rigorous” academic culture places a high value on academic performance, and expects their students to do the same. This does not mean the school is uncaring, unsupportive, or non-responsive -- far from it. A school can have a rigorous academic culture and still provide excellent individual support. It does mean, however, the school places a particular emphasis on performance -- seeking the best students and challenging them to the fullest extent -- relative to a normal baseline. High expectations and standards – and a challenging yet rewarding curriculum – are the common themes here. Keep in mind this classification is more relevant for the older grades: few Kindergarten classrooms, for example, would be called “rigorous”.

    Avg. Class Size

    10 to 12

    15 to 20

    Special needs support

    Developmental, Behavioral

    Gifted learner support

    Dedicated gifted school

    In-class adaptations

    Preschool/K curriculum

    Academic
    Academic-based preschools and Kindergartens are the most structured of the different types, and have a strong emphasis on math and reading readiness skills. These programs aim to expose children to what early-elementary school is like. While time is still allotted to free play, much of the day is built around explicit lessons guided by the teacher. Classrooms often resemble play-based ones (with different stations set up around the room), but at an Academic program the teacher leads students through the stations directly, and ties these activities to a whole-class lesson or theme.

    Tuition

    Tuition

    Day Tuition

    $12,797 to $13,848

    $1 to $23,400

    Boarding Tuition

    Financial aid (FA)

    No

    Yes

    Students on FA

    0%

    70%

    Eligible grades for FA

    None

    8 to 12

    Median FA package size

    $0

    $8,000

    Enrollment

    Enrollment

    Avg. enrollment per grade

    12

    8

    Percent in boarding

    0%

    0%

    Admissions

    Admissions

    Admissions rate

    50%

    0%

    Day entry years

    Preschool, JK, SK, K, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6

    Boarding entry years

    Day admissions deadline

    Rolling

    Rolling

    Boarding admissions deadline

    Not available

    Not available

    Interview required?

    Yes: grades Preschool - 6

    Yes: grades 8 - 12

    SSAT required

    Yes: grades 4 - 6

    No

  • OUR PERSPECTIVE

    The Our Kids Review

    The Our Kids Review

    SIDNEY LEDSON INSTITUTE

    information not available

    Our Take

    Our Take

    SIDNEY LEDSON INSTITUTE

    The school was founded in 1982 in order to create a program that reflected the work of Sidney Ledson, an author and expert on topics relating to teaching technology and motivation. His methods gained traction internationally, at the core of which is the idea that we needn’t wait to introduce children to new skill areas (specifically around language and numeracy) and the sooner we start, the better. His books on reading expanded the concept and application of phonics, and his work remains a foundation for the language arts programs at the institute today. There, and elsewhere, the approach intends to challenge students to reach further, to expand and improve their abilities in order to reach their fullest academic potentials. The ideal student is one operating at the top of his or her peer group, and, in the later grades, is preparing for success within university studies.

    View full report

    VANCOUVER INDEPENDENT SCHOOL FOR SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY

    Vancouver Independent School for Science and Technology (VISST) is a tech-heavy high school where all teachers are PhDs and UBC professors. Learning is project-based and follows the B.C. curriculum at an accelerated rate in which both the sciences and humanities are taught at a challenging pace. Currently, the school is admitting Grade 8 and 9 students, with more grades, and computer science is taught from Grade 8. Fun is deeply woven into the programming, creating an environment where students are excited to learn. and learning new things is not the only metric for success—creating a learning environment where students are excited to learn is key. The school respects students’ capabilities and time, and it clearly communicates goals to each student and for each project. VISST has a flexible tuition model that accounts for each family’s financial situation and resources. 

     

    View full report
  • School’s perspective

    Who are you, as a school?

    Who are you, as a school?

    SIDNEY LEDSON INSTITUTE

    "Founded in 1980 by best-selling author, Sidney Ledson, SLI excels in offering the best of traditional and innovative education to children from preschool to grade 6. Building on internationally acclaimed preschool reading success, SLI has grown into a hub for ground-breaking student achievement in literary, STEM, and artistic domains across all grade levels. Our tradition of excellence has continued online, and we now offer online and on-site participation options for the 2022-2023 year."

    • Online Preschool Program
    • On-Site and Online Kindergarten Program
    • On-Site and Online Elementary School Program
    • Full-day Live Teacher instruction and Assistance On-Site and Online
    • Online Participation in Math, Literary, and Entrepreneurship Contests
    • Small Class Sizes
    • Gifted Stimulation
    • STEM subjects
    • Individualized Learning
    • Co-ed

    VANCOUVER INDEPENDENT SCHOOL FOR SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY

    "Vancouver Independent School for Science and Technology (VISST) is Vancouver's first & only dedicated STEM high school, offering the full BC curriculum with accelerated/enriched STEM taught via a mix of traditional methods and project based learning. VISST isn't just for the "math whiz" type -- you will find all sorts of students at our school, united by a shared curiosity and passion for learning. We believe science and technology fundamentals are important for any path our students might take after high school."

    • Classes start at 10:00am.
    • A progressive tuition model that accounts for each family’s circumstances.
    • Computer science starting from Grade 8.
    • An integrated curriculum where teachers forge connections between subjects.
    • Transparent and open communication between the school, students, and parents.
    • Students take responsibility for, and take care of, the facilities and each other.
    • Fun as an explicit goal of the school - learning new things is not the only metric for success.
    • Working outside the school bubble: our students will create value for the broader community.
    • A learning environment where all students want to be there and are excited to learn.
    • Transparent communication of goals: students won’t be left wondering, "Why am I learning this?"

    Array

    What do you do differently and uniquely well?

    SIDNEY LEDSON INSTITUTE

    Information not available

    VANCOUVER INDEPENDENT SCHOOL FOR SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY

    "VISST is a reimagining of high school and differs from other schools in several ways. We ar a STEM school with enriched and accelerated STEM offerings, delivered by experts in our respective fields. VISST deeply values student buy-in and ownership. We include students in important decisions such as which teachers to hire. VISST staff are open and transparent with students, and avoid reinforcing power dynamics. Teachers and students are all just people, on a journey of self-improvement together."

    Array

    What tradeoffs has your school made to serve families in this way?

    SIDNEY LEDSON INSTITUTE

    Information not available

    Array

    What key junctures in your school's history have most shaped its present?

    SIDNEY LEDSON INSTITUTE

    Information not available

    Array

    What type of student is a good fit for your school?

    SIDNEY LEDSON INSTITUTE

    Information not available

    Array

    Under what conditions would you advise a family against choosing your school?

    SIDNEY LEDSON INSTITUTE

    Information not available

    Array

    To your knowledge, why do families choose your school over others?

    SIDNEY LEDSON INSTITUTE

    Information not available

    VANCOUVER INDEPENDENT SCHOOL FOR SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY

    "Families are drawn to VISST for different reasons: the STEM curriculum, the way students are treated and respected, the project-based learning, the like-minded peers. One of VISST's key competitive advantages is our teachers. In BC, it is not required that a teacher have a degree in a subject in order to teach it. In contrast, VISST teachers are highly trained experts who buy into VISST's philosophy and values. We give our teachers the time and resources to shine and do their life's best work."

    Array

    How would you characterize your school's image amongst the public?

    SIDNEY LEDSON INSTITUTE

    Information not available

    Array

    What aspect of your school is underappreciated?

    SIDNEY LEDSON INSTITUTE

    Information not available

    VANCOUVER INDEPENDENT SCHOOL FOR SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY

    "VISST's culture is sometimes underrated. In a word, we are a STEM school -- this features in our school's name, even. But in sentence, we are a STEM school with an utterly different school culture. At VISST students are first class citizens. Students call teachers by their first names, share social spaces with teachers, interview teacher candidates during hiring, and participate in school governance. Students truly feel a part of VISST, and in doing so they build justified self-confidence."

    Array

    What might families find surprising about your school?

    SIDNEY LEDSON INSTITUTE

    Information not available

    VANCOUVER INDEPENDENT SCHOOL FOR SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY

    "Some families think of VISST as a school for "math genius" types. While we do provide an excellent environment for students who excel in STEM subjects, VISST was created for a broader audience. We measure success by how much a student grows in 5 years, not by where they start or end up. All students at VISST enjoy STEM, are curious about it, and are capable of succeeding, but math doesn't have to be your strongest suit for you to attend and thrive at VISST. We also welcome "artsy" types!"

    Array

    What improvements or changes has your school made recently?

    SIDNEY LEDSON INSTITUTE

    Information not available

    Array

    How will your school change in the next 5 years?

    SIDNEY LEDSON INSTITUTE

    Information not available

  • SCHOOL LEADERSHIP

    Message from school leadership

    Message from school leadership

    The Sidney Ledson Institute is a visible expression of the philosophy embodied in Sidney Ledson's books, "Raising Brighter Children" and "Teach your Child to Read in 10 Minutes a Day."  Our PK - Gr. 7 Program implements this philosophy at the school to raise IQ, provide enriched academics, and promote self-confidence in our students, to not only succeed, but excel through their primary education, and then through their Alumni years at Toronto's most academically elite secondary and post-secondary institutions. 

    Welcome to the Vancouver Independent School for Science and Technology (VISST)! Before founding VISST, I was a computer science professor at UBC where I taught over 25 courses to thousands of students. At UBC I made two key observations. One, that university students are much more comfortable with well-defined short-term tasks than with ambiguity and long-term planning; this, I concluded, is likely a product of our current high school system. And two, I observed firsthand the insatiable demand for computer science at UBC and all universities around the world, which is well beyond our capacity to provide it. This is unfortunate, I felt, because kids are more than capable of learning computer science. Combining these observations with my teaching experience, I decided to create VISST along with a fantastic team. VISST is a non-profit high school in Vancouver that aims to address the struggles I observed in university students and the lack of computer science in high schools. 

    Our pedagogical approach is to combine project-based learning with rigorous fundamentals. The former builds teamwork skills, long-term planning, and comfort with ambiguity. The latter is an essential component to STEM excellence. An overarching theme of our educational philosophy is to have students interface with the real world as much as possible. Whether it is publishing an article, interpreting data from the news, or partnering with a community organization during a project, real-world experiences are motivating and educational. We would consider it a failure on our part if our students are left wondering, "Why am I learning this?"

    We look forward to having you explore VISST. Welcome to the VISST community.

  • SPECIAL NEEDS SUPPORT

    FORMAL SUPPORT FOR DISORDERS, DISABILITIES, AND EXCEPTIONALITIES

    A - Forms of Support

    Accommodation:
    Modification:
    Remediation:

    B - Environments

    Indirect Support:
    Resource Assistance:
    Withdrawal Assistance:
    Partial Integration:
    Full-Time Class:
    Forms of Support Environments Forms of Support Environments
    ADHD (moderate to severe)
    This is a neurodevelopmental disorder. Children with ADHD may be hyperactive and unable control their impulses. Or they may have trouble paying attention. These behaviors can interfere with school and home life.
    Learning disabilities
    Dyslexia (Language-Based Learning Disability)
    This is a learning disability that can limit a child's ability to read and learn. It can have a variety of traits. A few of the main ones are impaired phonological awareness and decoding, problems with orthographic coding, and auditory short-term memory impairment.
    Auditory Processing Disorder (APD)
    This is a sound differentiation disorder involving problems with reading, comprehension, and language.
    Dyscalculia
    This is a kind of specific learning disability in math. Kids with this math disorder have problems with calculation. They may also have problems with math-related concepts such as time and money.
    Dysgraphia
    This is a kind of specific learning disability in writing. It involves problems with handwriting, spelling, and organizing ideas.
    Language Processing Disorder
    This is characterized by having extreme difficulty understanding what is heard and expressing what one wants to say. These disorders affect the area of the brain that controls language processing.
    Nonverbal Learning Disorders (NLD)
    These involve difficulties interpreting non-verbal cues, such as facial expressions and body language. They're usually characterized by a significant discrepancy between higher verbal skills and weaker motor, visual-spatial, and social skills.
    Visual Perceptual/Visual Motor Deficit
    A characteristic seen in people with learning disabilities such as Dysgraphia or Non-verbal LD. It can result in missing subtle differences in shapes or printed letters, losing place frequently, struggles with cutting, holding pencil too tightly, or poor eye/hand coordination.
    Developmental
    Autism
    Refers to a range of conditions that involve challenges with social skills, repetitive behaviors, and speech and nonverbal communication. They also involve unique strengths and differences. For instance, there are persons with both low- and high-functioning autism (some claim the latter is identical to Asperger's syndrome).
    Asperger's Syndrome
    On the autism spectrum, Asperger's is considered quite mild in terms of symptoms. While traits can vary widely, many kids with Asperger's struggle with social skills. They also sometimes fixate on certain subjects and engage in repetitive behaviour.
    Down syndrome
    his is associated with impairment of cognitive ability and physical growth, and a particular set of facial characteristics.
    Intellectual disability
    This is a condition characterized by significant limitations in intellectual functioning (e.g., reasoning, learning, and problem solving). Intellectual disabilities are also known as general learning disabilities (and used to be referred to as a kind of mental retardation).
    Williams syndrome
    This is a rare genetic disorder present at birth. It is characterized by intellectual disabilities or learning problems, unique facial features, and cardiovascular problems.
    Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder (FASD)
    Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder (FASD) is an umbrella term used to describe the range of effects that can occur in an individual whose mother consumed alcohol during pregnancy. These may include growth deficits, facial anomalies, and damage to the central nervous system, which can lead to cognitive, behavioural, and other problems.
    Behavioral and Emotional
    Troubled behaviour / troubled teens
    roubled teens tend to have problems that are intense, persistent, and can lead to quite unpredictable behaviour. This can lead to behavioural and emotional issues, such as drug and alcohol abuse, criminal behaviour, eating disorders, depression, and anxiety.
    Clinical Depression
    This is a mental health disorder also called "major depression." It involves persistent feelings of sadness, loss, and anger. According to the Mayo Clinic, symptoms are usually severe enough to cause noticeable problems in relationships with others or in daily activities, such as school, work, or one's social life.
    Clinical anxiety
    This is a mood disorder involving intense, relentless feelings of distress and fear. They can also have excessive and persistent worry about everyday situations, and repeated episodes of intense anxiety or terror.
    Suicidal thoughts
    This involves persistent thoughts about ending one's life.
    Drug and alcohol abuse
    This involves the excessive use of drug and/or alcohol, which interferes with daily functioning.
    Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD)
    This is a disruptive behavioural disorder which normally involves angry outbursts, often directed at people of authority. This behaviour must last continuously for six months or more and significantly interfere with daily functioning.
    Physical
    Multiple sclerosis
    This is a condition of the central nervous system. It affects the brain, optic nerves, and spinal cord. Symptoms can include fatigue, loss of motor control, memory loss, depression, and cognitive difficulties.
    Cerebral palsy
    his refers to a group of permanent movement disorders that appear in early childhood. CP is caused by abnormal development or damage to the parts of the brain that control movement, balance, and posture.
    Muscular dystrophy
    Muscular dystrophy is a neuromuscular disorder which weakens the body's muscles. Causes, symptoms, age of onset, and prognosis vary between individuals.
    Spina Bifida
    This is a condition present at birth due to the incomplete formation of the spine and spinal cord. It can lead to a number of physical challenges, including paralysis or weakness in the legs, bowel and bladder incontinence, hydrocephalus (too much fluid in the brain), and deformities of the spine.
    Dyspraxia (Developmental Coordination Disorder)
    This is a Developmental Coordination Disorder (DCD). Also known as "sensory integration disorder," it affects fine and/or gross motor coordination in children and adults. It may also affect speech.
    Blindness
    Visual impairment is a decreased ability or inability to see that can't be fixed in usual ways, such as with glasses. Some people are completely blind, while others have what's called "legal blindness."
    Deafness
    Hearing impairment, also known as "hearing loss," is a partial or total inability to hear. The degree of hearing impairment varies between people. It can range from complete hearing loss (or deafness) to partial hearing loss (meaning the ears can pick up some sounds).
    Cystic Fibrosis
    Cystic Fibrosis (CF) is an inherited genetic condition, which affects the body's respiratory, digestive, and reproductive systems. It affects young children and adults.
    Multiple physical
    Accommodating a wide range of physical conditions and disabilities.

    Additional support

    Additional support

    SIDNEY LEDSON INSTITUTE

    Social skills programs
    Occupational therapy
    Psychotherapy
    Speech-language therapy

    VANCOUVER INDEPENDENT SCHOOL FOR SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY

    Social skills programs
    Occupational therapy
    Psychotherapy
    Speech-language therapy

    INFORMAL SUPPORT FOR MILD DIFFICULTIES

    Learning Strategy

    Extra Support

    Mild but clinically diagnosed ADHD

    Accommodations

    Modifications

    Extra support


    Additional support

    Additional support

    SIDNEY LEDSON INSTITUTE

    Social skills programs
    Occupational therapy
    Psychotherapy
    Speech-language therapy

    VANCOUVER INDEPENDENT SCHOOL FOR SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY

    Social skills programs
    Occupational therapy
    Psychotherapy
    Speech-language therapy


    What the school says about their special needs support

    What the school says about their special needs support

    SIDNEY LEDSON INSTITUTE

    Information not available


    What happens if child develops disorder while enrolled/Should families seek enrollment if child has disability

    What happens if child develops disorder while enrolled/Should families seek enrollment if child has disability

    SIDNEY LEDSON INSTITUTE

    Our teachers are trained to identify and follow a strategy-development protocol in partnership with parents and on-site specialists for the purpose of navigating developmental exceptionality that typically accompany high IQ (high-functioning Autism and ADHD). Due to the accelerated academics at all grade-levels, our program is not recommended for students with intellectual or other learning disabilities.

  • EXTRACURRICULARS

    Competitive

    Comp.

    Recreational

    Rec.

    Competitive

    Comp.

    Recreational

    Rec.

    Badminton

    Baseball

    Basketball

    Canoeing/Kayaking

    Cricket

    Cross-country skiing

    Cycling

    Downhill skiing

    Equestrian

    Fencing

    Field Hockey

    Figure Skating

    Football

    Golf

    Gymnastics

    Ice Hockey

    Ice Skating

    Lacrosse

    Martial Arts

    Mountain biking

    Racquet Ball

    Rowing

    Rugby

    Running

    Sailing

    Skateboarding

    Snowboarding

    Soccer

    Softball

    Squash

    Swimming

    Tennis

    Track & Field

    Volleyball

    Weightlifting

    Wrestling

    Archery

    Curling

    Ultimate


    Clubs Offered

    Clubs offered

    SIDNEY LEDSON INSTITUTE

    Ballet and Classical Ballet
    Yoga
    Yearbook
    Student Council
    Scouting
    Science Club
    School newspaper
    Round Square
    Robotics club
    Radio club
    Poetry/Literature club
    Photography
    Paintball
    Outdoor Education
    Outdoor Club
    Online Magazine
    Musical theatre/Opera
    Math Club
    Jazz Ensemble
    Habitat for Humanity
    Foreign Language Club
    Environmental Club
    Drama Club
    Debate Club
    Dance Club
    Computer Club
    Community Service
    Choir
    Chess Club
    Band
    Audiovisual Club
    Astronomy Club
    Art Club
    Animation

    VANCOUVER INDEPENDENT SCHOOL FOR SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY

    Ballet and Classical Ballet
    Yoga
    Yearbook
    Student Council
    Scouting
    Science Club
    School newspaper
    Round Square
    Robotics club
    Radio club
    Poetry/Literature club
    Photography
    Paintball
    Outdoor Education
    Outdoor Club
    Online Magazine
    Musical theatre/Opera
    Math Club
    Jazz Ensemble
    Habitat for Humanity
    Foreign Language Club
    Environmental Club
    Drama Club
    Debate Club
    Dance Club
    Computer Club
    Community Service
    Choir
    Chess Club
    Band
    Audiovisual Club
    Astronomy Club
    Art Club
    Animation


    What the school says

    What the school says

    SIDNEY LEDSON INSTITUTE

    • Digit Art (Photoshop, VR Art, and more)
    • Competitive/Recreational Chess Training and Tournament Participation
  • Financial Aid

    Grades eligible

    Grades eligible

    8 - 12

    Students on aid

    Students on aid

    0%

    70%

    Avg. aid package (annual)

    Avg. aid package (annual)

    $0

    $8,000

  • ADMISSIONS

    Admissions

    Admissions rate

    50%

    0%

    Day entry years

    Preschool, JK, SK, K, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6

    Boarding entry years

    Day admissions deadline

    Rolling

    Rolling

    Boarding admissions deadline

    Not available

    Not available

    Interview required?

    Yes: grades Preschool - 6

    Yes: grades 8 - 12

    SSAT required

    Yes: grades 4 - 6

    No

    SSAT(out of province) required

    No

    No

    Entrance exams required

    No

    No

    Entrance essay required

    No

    Yes: grades 8 - 12

    Application fee required

    No

    No

    Type of student school is looking for

    Type of student school is looking for

    SIDNEY LEDSON INSTITUTE

    Our admissions process is geared to select students that present a strong academic record, effective social regulation skills, and an observable drive and openness to learn and adapt as leaders and team players.

    VANCOUVER INDEPENDENT SCHOOL FOR SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY

    We are looking for students who want to be challenged and who demonstrate the potential to meet those challenges. A strong applicant will also demonstrate that they understand what VISST is about and that they would really like to be a part of this unique school and community. As a STEM school, we are looking for students with an interest in STEM, but this does not have to be your only interest! On the contrary, we welcome students with a broad range of interests; a diverse student body will enrich the experience for everyone. You will find that VISST innovates, and employs amazing teachers, in all subject areas.

    What the school says

    What the school says

    SIDNEY LEDSON INSTITUTE

    Please email [email protected] to request an admissions application package for your desired grade of entry.  

    VANCOUVER INDEPENDENT SCHOOL FOR SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY

    See https://www.visst.ca/admissions for admissions information.

  • NOTABLE ALUMNI

    Alumni

    information not available
    information not available

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